Wired: Gas-electric hybrids are the 
    automotive industry's biggest success story in years. So why is GM betting 
    the farm on hydrogen? 
     Burns: 
    I wouldn't call it betting the farm. The fuel cell and hydrogen program is 
    the largest in my budget, but you have to look at it as our long-term play. 
    Are we making a big bet? Yes. Is it an important bet? Yes. Is it our only 
    bet? No. Are we spending like drunken sailors to the point that we wouldn't 
    be able to do anything else if this doesn't pan out? No, not at all.
Burns: 
    I wouldn't call it betting the farm. The fuel cell and hydrogen program is 
    the largest in my budget, but you have to look at it as our long-term play. 
    Are we making a big bet? Yes. Is it an important bet? Yes. Is it our only 
    bet? No. Are we spending like drunken sailors to the point that we wouldn't 
    be able to do anything else if this doesn't pan out? No, not at all.
    
But you still have to catch up to 
    Toyota. 
    What long-term problem have we fixed with the 
    miracle of a hybrid? If you woke up tomorrow and all 220 million cars and 
    trucks in the United States had been hybridized to the degree that the Prius 
    has - all getting 25 percent better fuel economy - in six years we would be 
    consuming the same amount of petroleum that we are right now. Fuel cells 
    create a better automobile that's 50 percent more energy-efficient overall 
    and sustainable from energy and safety perspectives. We're going to compete 
    for customers by having good hybrids, but these vehicles account for less 
    than 1 percent of US auto sales. I admire what Toyota has done, but at the 
    end of the day, what problems are we trying to fix here? 
So can I assume GM's hybrid cars, like 
    Ford's, will be part of a deal with Toyota? 
    No, you can't assume that at all. The 
    technology we're coming out with in 2007 is our own. We do not have a 
    collaboration with Toyota on hybrids. 
Many scientists say it will take 
    decades to develop fuel cells and the infrastructure to support them. What 
    do you know that they don't? 
    The first question I'd like to ask them is, 
    when was the last time you were in a state-of-the-art fuel cell-development 
    laboratory? I work with a tremendous team of scientists and engineers who 
    are creating that capability, and my confidence in our 2010 timetable grows 
    every week. 
But we still have to burn fossil fuels 
    to get hydrogen. What's the point of a hydrogen economy if it's powered by 
    carbon? 
    I don't believe that a hydrogen economy 
    depends on a carbon economy at all. Do you know how many nuclear reactors 
    China will be implementing over the next 20 years? Quite honestly, being in 
    the car business, I don't care whether the hydrogen comes from wind, 
    geothermal, nuclear, solar, or fossil. What I care about is that each local 
    economy plays to its strength. You get 5 percent from here and 10 percent 
    from there, and suddenly you've created a transportation energy market with 
    a number of pathways competing, as opposed to just a petroleum pathway.
    
OK, but you have to admit it's tough to 
    take all this seriously from the company that makes Hummers. 
    Yes, we do develop and sell Hummers. We're 
    also offering Americans more high-efficiency, high-volume-potential vehicles 
    than any other manufacturer. We're in the business of building cars that 
    people want to buy. The question I have for environmentalists is, Why do 
    some of them come across as anti-hydrogen? What's so threatening about a 
    solution that removes the automobile from the environmental debate?